.http://www.o-love.net/bg-faq/faq3.html#Tactics
Kampfstrategien
Moderatoren: mara, Castore, sepruecom, Jean-Paul, mara, Castore, sepruecom, Jean-Paul
ist ja sogar ein ziemlich grosser neuer teil dazugekommen: http://www.o-love.net/bg-faq/faq4.html
So ich will mal wieder einen Versuch starten (Nummer 11) und dabei seeehr viel auf Magie setzen.
Meine Party soll ungefähr wie folgt aussehen:
Kämpfer/Magier
Kämpfer/Dieb
Kleriker
Beschwörer
Thraumaturg
Hexenmeister
Was haltet ihr davon?
Müßte mit den vielen Magiern recht einfach gehen und Spruchrollen gibts ja auch genug oder?
Meine Party soll ungefähr wie folgt aussehen:
Kämpfer/Magier
Kämpfer/Dieb
Kleriker
Beschwörer
Thraumaturg
Hexenmeister
Was haltet ihr davon?
Müßte mit den vielen Magiern recht einfach gehen und Spruchrollen gibts ja auch genug oder?
obs einfach geht, weiss ich nicht. aber interessant kannst werden. das spruchproblem wie in iwd hat man in bg2 jedenfalls vermutlich nicht.
ich spiel übrigens auch grad ne themengruppe - alles fernkämpfer. bisher alles ganz easy gewesen.
- archer, long bow
- archer, short bow
- archer, xbow
- fighter/thief, darts & wurfaxt
- cleric/ranger, sling & magie
- sorcerer, wurfdolch & sling & magie
ich spiel übrigens auch grad ne themengruppe - alles fernkämpfer. bisher alles ganz easy gewesen.
- archer, long bow
- archer, short bow
- archer, xbow
- fighter/thief, darts & wurfaxt
- cleric/ranger, sling & magie
- sorcerer, wurfdolch & sling & magie
ein abbild eines chars, ja. aber natürlich kann jeder char ein abbild haben. und ja, DAS hab ich ausprobiert (ein char mit helm, einer mit dem zauber). imho auch für den sorcerer ein extrem sinnvoller spell. so kann das original die hoch-lvligen zauber sprechen, während das abbild die niedrig-lvligen macht. das verdoppelt die zaubergeschwindigkeit und kann manchmal entscheidend sein.
Habs jetz auch nochmal ausprobiert mit 2 Sprüchen und klappt auch 2mal.
Aber manchmal is Ebenbild wircklich besser,z.b kann man erst ein Ebenbild machen alle heftigen Zauber(dank 100% der stufe!) verbraten
und dan mit den echtern Hexer nochmal die gleichen Zauber anwenden.
Allso hier mal der teil des Guides für level 7-9 Sprüche:
5.7 Level 7 Spells (5 picks)
Finger of Death: Dragons, Greater Wolfweres, Elder Beholders, Kuo Toa
Princes, and anything else I can think of, will fall to this spell,
provided that you bust their spell protections and cast a pre-emptive
Greater Malison. Still packs a punch in ToB, although not nearly as
much as before.
Project Image: this is an excellent utility spell both in and outside
of combat. Combined with a Wizard Eye it makes an excellent kamikaze,
however the real beauty of this spell is that it can cut down
significantly on the number of spells you use. Example:
You want to summon 5 skeletal warriors? Cast a Project Image and
have it do it for you. YOUR 5th level spell picks will remain untouched.
You can do the same thing with umm...Protection from Magic Energy,
Summon Planetar, and many many other spells. I highly recommend this one.
Mordenkainen`s Sword: While being rather unremarkable in terms of
THAC0, these guys have a neat perk of being totally immune to physical
damage (as in Normal and Magical Weapons), which comes in handy on more
than one occasion when playing ToB.
Limited Wish: I`m not particularly crazy about this spell, but since
you are going to have 18 Wis (for the Wish spell), you might as well
pick this one up too.
Summon Hakeashar: The value of this spell has been greatly reduced in
ToB, because enemy wizards are no longer your biggest threat. Feel
free to dump this one for anything else that catches your eye on this
level. Unfortunately, I saw nothing good.
Summary: 7th level is surprisingly unremarkable when it comes to spell
picks, with few good spells besides the aforementioned ones.
Ruby Ray of Reversal: with Spellstrike on the horizon, you don`t need
this Ruby Ray or whatever it is.
Power Word Stun: works on anyone with less than 90 hitpoints (provided
that you have eliminated their spell defences). This means, that most
mages and clerics WILL be stunned by this spell. Of course, most
warriors will just shrug it off. In ToB most enemies have far too many
hitpoints for this spell to work.
Protection From Elements: 75% Protection from all elemental attacks.
Pretty good, actually. Take this one instead of either Hakeashar or
Limited Wish.
5.8 Level 8 Spells (4 picks)
Abi Dalzim`s Horrid Wilting: this spell is just too cool for words.
I took down half of the Underdark with it (including the Mind Flayers`
Elder Brain). Cruel, brutal damage, and totally party-friendly!
Long casting time though (but that can be countered). In ToB, this
spell only increases in importance.
Spell Trigger: this is a very versatile spell that has its uses in
various combat situations. Good spells to queue include Lower Resistance,
Skull Trap and Flame Arrow.
Power Word Blind: my new favorite. It blinds anyone with no save
(although Magic Resistance can stop it), long enough to finish them off.
Especially useful on spellcasters, since instead of killing you they
just stand there looking stupid. Highly amuzing.
Summon Fiend: if you want to have a demon, this is the way to go. It is
absolutely pointless to spend a 9th level spell slot on Gate, when
this spell accomplishes the same thing except that instead of a Pit Fiend
it summons a Glabrezu, which is just as good.
Summary: Yuck! 8th level proves to be even more useless than 7th...
other than those two aforementioned spells there`s hardly anything
here to lay eyes on...
Maze: cool effect, no save. What the spell description doesn`t say
however, is that this spell CAN be countered by magic resistance.
By the time you can cast this spell, most of your adversaries will
have TONS of magic resistance, making this spell far less than
what it seems to be.
Pierce Shield: Spellstrike makes this one moot.
Symbol Stun: also an okay spell. Good effect and good saving penalty.
However, by this time melee opponents are no longer a threat, and Mages
don`t seem to be affected by it. Also, this spell WILL disable your
own party.
Simulacrum: to put it bluntly, this spell sucks, especially compared to
Project Image. Add the fact that can only have ONE simulacrum at a time,
and this spell becomes a complete loser. Thumbs down. Big time.
5.9 Level 9 Spells (4 picks)
Time Stop: Hail to the chief. Long live the king. Bow before this spell
for you are not worthy. On a serious note, this the crowning achievement
of a high level spellcaster, which leaves you free to try any strategy
you want. This spell is what will make your enemies tremble. This is
not only a must-have, but it should be the first 9th level spell you pick.
Spellstrike: this is what allows you to completely ignore lower level
defense-busters (other than Breach). This is a one-shot spell protection
remover, and it does it`s job extremely well. As Lilarcor has succintly
put it: "I`m good at what I do, and what I do ain`t pretty."
Wish: it`s new, it`s cool, it allows you to do things that you normaly
can`t. For instance, you can rememorize all your spells (including 9th
level), or raise dead party members (clerics? ha!), or...well, let`s just
say that it allows you to do many nifty things. The only downside is that
it need both high Int (which you otherwise don`t need) and high Wis.
Nevertheless, an excellent choice.
Chain Contingency: allows you to kill your enemies the moment they turn
hostile (or the moment they are seen). Stick 3 Abi-Dalzims, set them to
release them upon the nearest enemy sighted. Neat. Oh, and there are all
those obvious defensive uses that annoy me so much when the enemy has them.
Summary: Lo and behold, the 9th level is here. This is what mage`s power
is all about. If Kensai is a master of one on one combat, the Sorcerer is
a master of one on everyone else combat. 9th level is here to make sure
that that is exactly what`s gonna happen. Let`s see what else we have here.
Absolute Immunity: Protection From Magical weapons will suffice. Do not
take this one.
Black Blade of Disaster: let me explain it in a complex mathematical
formula...Sorcerer + melee combat = dead Sorcerer. Do not take this spell.
Gate: Gah, it`s a total ripoff, considering that there are spells of the
same power at lower levels.
Energy Drain: won`t it be cool to be a vampire? not at the expense of a 9th
level spell pick. Plus it requires physical contact and all those other
things a self-respecting Sorcerer shouldn`t do...
Freedom: there are scrolls for that. Obviously.
Imprisonment: this is actually a good spell. The problem is that it`s too
good. Totally takes the challenge out of the game, hence I don`t use it.
Meteor Swarm: No, no and no. You get the Comet special spell for a reason,
and that reason is not to get Meteor Swarm.
Power Word Kill: if you can get an enemy to as low as 60 hitpoints, he
is already as good as dead. Don`t bother with this spell.
Shapechange: this spell comes too late to be of any use. If only it were on
the 8th level...As it is, don`t bother.
Spell Trap: Staff of Magi gives you an undispellable spell trap (not even
Spell Strike can bring it down), therefore conveniently allowing you to
avoid this otherwise neat spell.
Wail of the Banshee: without a penalty to save (Greater malison alone
is not enough) this spell just doesn`t cut it.
Aber manchmal is Ebenbild wircklich besser,z.b kann man erst ein Ebenbild machen alle heftigen Zauber(dank 100% der stufe!) verbraten
und dan mit den echtern Hexer nochmal die gleichen Zauber anwenden.
Allso hier mal der teil des Guides für level 7-9 Sprüche:
5.7 Level 7 Spells (5 picks)
Finger of Death: Dragons, Greater Wolfweres, Elder Beholders, Kuo Toa
Princes, and anything else I can think of, will fall to this spell,
provided that you bust their spell protections and cast a pre-emptive
Greater Malison. Still packs a punch in ToB, although not nearly as
much as before.
Project Image: this is an excellent utility spell both in and outside
of combat. Combined with a Wizard Eye it makes an excellent kamikaze,
however the real beauty of this spell is that it can cut down
significantly on the number of spells you use. Example:
You want to summon 5 skeletal warriors? Cast a Project Image and
have it do it for you. YOUR 5th level spell picks will remain untouched.
You can do the same thing with umm...Protection from Magic Energy,
Summon Planetar, and many many other spells. I highly recommend this one.
Mordenkainen`s Sword: While being rather unremarkable in terms of
THAC0, these guys have a neat perk of being totally immune to physical
damage (as in Normal and Magical Weapons), which comes in handy on more
than one occasion when playing ToB.
Limited Wish: I`m not particularly crazy about this spell, but since
you are going to have 18 Wis (for the Wish spell), you might as well
pick this one up too.
Summon Hakeashar: The value of this spell has been greatly reduced in
ToB, because enemy wizards are no longer your biggest threat. Feel
free to dump this one for anything else that catches your eye on this
level. Unfortunately, I saw nothing good.
Summary: 7th level is surprisingly unremarkable when it comes to spell
picks, with few good spells besides the aforementioned ones.
Ruby Ray of Reversal: with Spellstrike on the horizon, you don`t need
this Ruby Ray or whatever it is.
Power Word Stun: works on anyone with less than 90 hitpoints (provided
that you have eliminated their spell defences). This means, that most
mages and clerics WILL be stunned by this spell. Of course, most
warriors will just shrug it off. In ToB most enemies have far too many
hitpoints for this spell to work.
Protection From Elements: 75% Protection from all elemental attacks.
Pretty good, actually. Take this one instead of either Hakeashar or
Limited Wish.
5.8 Level 8 Spells (4 picks)
Abi Dalzim`s Horrid Wilting: this spell is just too cool for words.
I took down half of the Underdark with it (including the Mind Flayers`
Elder Brain). Cruel, brutal damage, and totally party-friendly!
Long casting time though (but that can be countered). In ToB, this
spell only increases in importance.
Spell Trigger: this is a very versatile spell that has its uses in
various combat situations. Good spells to queue include Lower Resistance,
Skull Trap and Flame Arrow.
Power Word Blind: my new favorite. It blinds anyone with no save
(although Magic Resistance can stop it), long enough to finish them off.
Especially useful on spellcasters, since instead of killing you they
just stand there looking stupid. Highly amuzing.
Summon Fiend: if you want to have a demon, this is the way to go. It is
absolutely pointless to spend a 9th level spell slot on Gate, when
this spell accomplishes the same thing except that instead of a Pit Fiend
it summons a Glabrezu, which is just as good.
Summary: Yuck! 8th level proves to be even more useless than 7th...
other than those two aforementioned spells there`s hardly anything
here to lay eyes on...
Maze: cool effect, no save. What the spell description doesn`t say
however, is that this spell CAN be countered by magic resistance.
By the time you can cast this spell, most of your adversaries will
have TONS of magic resistance, making this spell far less than
what it seems to be.
Pierce Shield: Spellstrike makes this one moot.
Symbol Stun: also an okay spell. Good effect and good saving penalty.
However, by this time melee opponents are no longer a threat, and Mages
don`t seem to be affected by it. Also, this spell WILL disable your
own party.
Simulacrum: to put it bluntly, this spell sucks, especially compared to
Project Image. Add the fact that can only have ONE simulacrum at a time,
and this spell becomes a complete loser. Thumbs down. Big time.
5.9 Level 9 Spells (4 picks)
Time Stop: Hail to the chief. Long live the king. Bow before this spell
for you are not worthy. On a serious note, this the crowning achievement
of a high level spellcaster, which leaves you free to try any strategy
you want. This spell is what will make your enemies tremble. This is
not only a must-have, but it should be the first 9th level spell you pick.
Spellstrike: this is what allows you to completely ignore lower level
defense-busters (other than Breach). This is a one-shot spell protection
remover, and it does it`s job extremely well. As Lilarcor has succintly
put it: "I`m good at what I do, and what I do ain`t pretty."
Wish: it`s new, it`s cool, it allows you to do things that you normaly
can`t. For instance, you can rememorize all your spells (including 9th
level), or raise dead party members (clerics? ha!), or...well, let`s just
say that it allows you to do many nifty things. The only downside is that
it need both high Int (which you otherwise don`t need) and high Wis.
Nevertheless, an excellent choice.
Chain Contingency: allows you to kill your enemies the moment they turn
hostile (or the moment they are seen). Stick 3 Abi-Dalzims, set them to
release them upon the nearest enemy sighted. Neat. Oh, and there are all
those obvious defensive uses that annoy me so much when the enemy has them.
Summary: Lo and behold, the 9th level is here. This is what mage`s power
is all about. If Kensai is a master of one on one combat, the Sorcerer is
a master of one on everyone else combat. 9th level is here to make sure
that that is exactly what`s gonna happen. Let`s see what else we have here.
Absolute Immunity: Protection From Magical weapons will suffice. Do not
take this one.
Black Blade of Disaster: let me explain it in a complex mathematical
formula...Sorcerer + melee combat = dead Sorcerer. Do not take this spell.
Gate: Gah, it`s a total ripoff, considering that there are spells of the
same power at lower levels.
Energy Drain: won`t it be cool to be a vampire? not at the expense of a 9th
level spell pick. Plus it requires physical contact and all those other
things a self-respecting Sorcerer shouldn`t do...
Freedom: there are scrolls for that. Obviously.
Imprisonment: this is actually a good spell. The problem is that it`s too
good. Totally takes the challenge out of the game, hence I don`t use it.
Meteor Swarm: No, no and no. You get the Comet special spell for a reason,
and that reason is not to get Meteor Swarm.
Power Word Kill: if you can get an enemy to as low as 60 hitpoints, he
is already as good as dead. Don`t bother with this spell.
Shapechange: this spell comes too late to be of any use. If only it were on
the 8th level...As it is, don`t bother.
Spell Trap: Staff of Magi gives you an undispellable spell trap (not even
Spell Strike can bring it down), therefore conveniently allowing you to
avoid this otherwise neat spell.
Wail of the Banshee: without a penalty to save (Greater malison alone
is not enough) this spell just doesn`t cut it.
dem meisten kann ich zustimmen, wenn auch nicht allem . simulacrum ist definitv ein extrem mächtiger spell. der punkt ist, dass man mit abbild und original gleichzeitig zaubern kann, beim projected image ist das nicht möglich. zudem braucht man auf dem 8. grad nicht so viel, den platz hat man also.
da sind noch ein paar sachen, aber ich hab grad keinen bock alles auseinander zu klamüsern.
. simulacrum ist definitv ein extrem mächtiger spell. der punkt ist, dass man mit abbild und original gleichzeitig zaubern kann, beim projected image ist das nicht möglich. zudem braucht man auf dem 8. grad nicht so viel, den platz hat man also.da sind noch ein paar sachen, aber ich hab grad keinen bock alles auseinander zu klamüsern
.naja 4 is nun wircklich nich grad viel platz oder?
Also ich würd mal volgendes für grad 8 forschlagen:
1.Austrocknung
2.Machtwort:blind
3.Auslöser
4.Abbild
Aber Ebenbild is wircklich ein sehr nützlich spruch wegen gleicher Stufe und kein verlust durch die Zauber des Ebenbildes(eben für Beschwören sehr nützlich) und wen mans nur dafür brauch um 5 vicher herbeizuzaubern hat sich das auch schon gelohnt(falls man schnell weiter will haut man eben einmal ohne waffe gegen den Magier
) .
Also ich würd mal volgendes für grad 8 forschlagen:
1.Austrocknung
2.Machtwort:blind
3.Auslöser
4.Abbild
Aber Ebenbild is wircklich ein sehr nützlich spruch wegen gleicher Stufe und kein verlust durch die Zauber des Ebenbildes(eben für Beschwören sehr nützlich) und wen mans nur dafür brauch um 5 vicher herbeizuzaubern hat sich das auch schon gelohnt(falls man schnell weiter will haut man eben einmal ohne waffe gegen den Magier
) .hab ja nie behauptet, dass project image schlecht ist, ich sag nur, dass simulacrum auch sehr gut ist. die beiden spells sind viel unterschiedlicher einzusetzen, als es auf den ersten blick aussieht.
die reihenfolge würd ich übrigens anders wählen.
1. austrockung
2. abbild
3. spell trigger
4. powerword: blind
[ Dieser Beitrag wurde von uzi am 25.03.2002 editiert. ]
die reihenfolge würd ich übrigens anders wählen.
1. austrockung
2. abbild
3. spell trigger
4. powerword: blind
[ Dieser Beitrag wurde von uzi am 25.03.2002 editiert. ]
Hab ja auf der letzten Seite über meine neue magielastige Gruppe geschrieben und jetzt hab ich sie erstellt.Ist nicht irgendwie die taktisch und powergamerisch (was ein Wort 
) beste Gruppe, hab einfach mal ein bischen was neues ausprobiert.
[*]Kämpfer/Magier (Elf)
spezialisiert auf Kampfstäbe und Armbrüste
[*]Kleriker (Mensch)
spezialisiert auf Hämmer und Flegel, eventuell später Zwei-Waffenkampf mit Crom Faeyr und Flegel der Zeitalter
[*]Kämpfer/Dieb (Halb-Elf)
spezialisiert auf Axt bzw. Wurftaxt je nach Situation
[*]Beschwörer (Mensch)
spezialisiert auf Schleuder und Wurfpfeile
[*]Wandler (Halb-Elf)
spezialisiert auf Dolch und Kampfstäbe
[*]Hexenmeister (Halb-Elf)
spezialisiert auf Schleuder und Kampfstäbe
Gehts bisher ziemlich gut, hänge nur gerade im Anfangsdungeon bei den vielen Mephits (beim Dschinn).
Meine Nahkämpfer benutzt ich fast gar nicht, meistens gehen meine vier Magier nach vorne und verteilen erstmal kräftig Flächenzauber und gezielte Magische Geschosse, danach gehen alle in den Fernkampf.
Hier mal zwei Bilder um meine Taktiken zu verdeutlichen.
http://www.the-brotherhood-of-darkness.de/Mages1.jpg
http://www.the-brotherhood-of-darkness.de/Mages2.jpg
) beste Gruppe, hab einfach mal ein bischen was neues ausprobiert.[*]Kämpfer/Magier (Elf)
spezialisiert auf Kampfstäbe und Armbrüste
[*]Kleriker (Mensch)
spezialisiert auf Hämmer und Flegel, eventuell später Zwei-Waffenkampf mit Crom Faeyr und Flegel der Zeitalter
[*]Kämpfer/Dieb (Halb-Elf)
spezialisiert auf Axt bzw. Wurftaxt je nach Situation
[*]Beschwörer (Mensch)
spezialisiert auf Schleuder und Wurfpfeile
[*]Wandler (Halb-Elf)
spezialisiert auf Dolch und Kampfstäbe
[*]Hexenmeister (Halb-Elf)
spezialisiert auf Schleuder und Kampfstäbe
Gehts bisher ziemlich gut, hänge nur gerade im Anfangsdungeon bei den vielen Mephits (beim Dschinn).
Meine Nahkämpfer benutzt ich fast gar nicht, meistens gehen meine vier Magier nach vorne und verteilen erstmal kräftig Flächenzauber und gezielte Magische Geschosse, danach gehen alle in den Fernkampf.
Hier mal zwei Bilder um meine Taktiken zu verdeutlichen
.http://www.the-brotherhood-of-darkness.de/Mages1.jpg
http://www.the-brotherhood-of-darkness.de/Mages2.jpg
Is mit Basis etw0 der normale etw0 gemeint?
Ich hab mal meinen Kensai alle Waffen und Ausrüstung weggenommen und da war
normaler etw0:0
etw0:-19
Allso is -19 eigentlich 0 oder zählt der Klassenbonus doch nich nur zum normalen etw0?
PS:is schon lustig wen Sarevok(lv 20) in der Grossen Metaleinheit von einen waffenlosen Kensai(lv 40) problemlos verprügelt wird
Ich hab mal meinen Kensai alle Waffen und Ausrüstung weggenommen und da war
normaler etw0:0
etw0:-19
Allso is -19 eigentlich 0 oder zählt der Klassenbonus doch nich nur zum normalen etw0?
PS:is schon lustig wen Sarevok(lv 20) in der Grossen Metaleinheit von einen waffenlosen Kensai(lv 40) problemlos verprügelt wird
der etw0 wird immer als x(y) angegeben. x ist dabei der basis-etw0 ohne alle klassen-boni und items. str ist imho auch nicht dabei. y ist der etw0 mit allen oben aufgeführten boni. der basis-etw0, der sich über den klassenanstieg definiert, kann also nur bis 0 gehen. sprich, ein fighter auf lvl 20 verbessert seinen etw0 nicht mehr.
wie immer gibt es auch hier ausnahmen von der regel. so verbessert baldurans helm imho den basis-etw0. ob der dann damit auch unter 0 sinken kann, weiss ich nicht. sollte man mal testen.
wie immer gibt es auch hier ausnahmen von der regel. so verbessert baldurans helm imho den basis-etw0. ob der dann damit auch unter 0 sinken kann, weiss ich nicht. sollte man mal testen.
